Public opinion surrounding the Russia-Ukraine peace talks is predominantly negative, with significant skepticism about Russia's intentions and dissatisfaction with their demands. The general sentiment is that the talks lack sincerity and that Ukraine is being pressured into making concessions. There is frustration with Russia's perceived lack of genuine negotiation efforts and concerns over a protracted conflict.

Russia

Ukraine

Russian delegation quotes:

"We don’t want war, but we’re ready to fight for a year, two, three—however long it takes. We fought Sweden for 21 years. How long are you ready to fight?"

"Maybe some of those sitting here at this table will lose more of their loved ones. Russia is prepared to fight forever.”

source:

- https://x.com/olliecarroll/status/1923357966880604303
- https://x.com/RobynDixon__/status/1923395655151550606

yikes

teddmagwell

"This could've been an email" moment between the two countries

samratvishaljain

Putin proposed the meeting and when Zelenskyy accepted, he bitched out like the little coward he repeatedly and endlessly proves to be.

gotohellwithsuperman

ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) — The first direct peace talks between Russia and Ukraine since the early weeks of Moscow’s 2022 invasion ended Friday after less than two hours, and a senior Ukrainian official said the Russian side introduced new “unacceptable demands.”

Before they adjourned, Kyiv and Moscow agreed to exchange 1,000 prisoners of war each, according to the heads of both delegations, in what would be their biggest such swap since the war began.

Both sides also discussed a ceasefire and a meeting between their heads of state, according to chief Ukrainian delegate Rustem Umerov.

Russian presidential aide Vladimir Medinsky, who headed Moscow’s delegation, said both sides agreed to provide each other with detailed ceasefire proposals and a meeting by their heads of state..

During the talks, a senior Ukrainian official said Russia introduced new “unacceptable demands” to withdraw Ukrainian forces from huge swaths of it’s own territory. The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to make official statements.

The demands had not been previously discussed, the official said.

He said the Ukrainian side reiterated it remained focused on achieving real progress — an immediate ceasefire and a pathway to substantive diplomacy, “just like the U.S., European partners, and other countries proposed,” the official added.

The two sides sat at a U-shaped table but remained far apart in their conditions for ending the war. U.S. President Donald Trump, who has pressed both Moscow and Kyiv for an end to the conflict, saying a meeting between himself and Russian President Vladimir Putin would happen “as soon as we can set it up.”

“I think it’s time for us to just do it,” Trump told reporters in Abu Dhabi as he wrapped up a trip to the Middle East.

VictorEmmanuelIV

Hey, longer than Russia not violating a ceasefire.

[deleted]

Thought Trump would have this settled on day one like he said..

The-cultured-swine39

Everyone knew the Russian delegation was a dog-and-pony show with no actual interest in negotiating, but Ukraine had to show up to avoid giving rage baiters easy talking points to latch onto.

DoggedStooge

Ukraine: Please leave our country

Russia: no

Ukraine : please we want to be a free independent country 

Russia: you will join USSR and be Russian 

Ukraine : no, we are Ukrainian and want to determine our future ourselves 

Russia: Ukraine demands are unreasonable

asexyshaytan

Why can't I get unhinged Trump on my side even once??!! Why does he ALWAYS have to be both a chaotic psycho AND do the wrong thing. Couldn't he, just this once, be a chaotic psycho and tell Russia that unless they come to terms with Ukraine we'll fucking lock down the airspace over Ukraine and increase weapons shipments?? Goddamnit.

giantrhino

Russia is only ensuring their demographic demise by continuing this conflict. The only people left will be those too old to fight (if age ever mattered) and the criminals that survived to come home still acting like criminals and a hefty dose of ptsd.

LeadOnion

inbetween-genders

I seem to recall Trump saying recently that if Putin rejects peace he was gonna back Ukraine "like you've never believed." Let's see it Donnie

Tacklinggnome87

"stop attacking us"
"Nyet"

*Meeting ends*

kombuchawow

Ukraine: “Are you going to stop invading our country?”.
Russia: “Nope”
Meeting adjourned

Logical_Frosting_277

It was bullshit anyway. I dont think the Ukrainians believed it but they need to work with it, to hopefully keep the US in the war.

Mrstrawberry209

Shawn_The_Sheep777

They fought Sweden 21 years, and lost less men than in Ukraine for 3 years.

L0gard

TYBTD

Ukraine: “Withdraw and go home.”
Russia: “No.”
Ukraine: “Get Fucked”

Dismissed.

Fun_Beat1578

Russia: "Surrender"

Ukraine: "No"

US: Shrug emoji, \*walks out\*

count023

Peace talks with the aggressors hell bent on spite and genocide is pointless.

Gloomy-Quality-1106

I can't believe how much Putin screwed himself with this war, he can't stop it without a serious concern of a recession and subsequent protests, I wonder when he gets taken out of power how much longer he would've lasted had he not reignited the war

ShinyStarSam

&gt; We don't want war

But... Russia started it. Unprovoked. And they slaughtered civilians. Unprovoked. 

&gt; We're willing to fight forever

*Why*?

Page8988

Anither solid source: "❗️The Russians demanded Ukraine withdraw entirely from 4 of its regions. After being refused by the Ukrainian delegation, they stood up and said, “Next time, it’ll be 5.”

prophecy555

Holy shit if you ever want to imagine hell just look at this table of old rich men discussing how much longer kids have to go killing each other for, for them, for no reason. (Obviously not the Ukrainian side)

Notallowedhe

I'm surprised it lasted that long. Fuck Russia

Kooky-Parfait-2706

Nice they could come to an agreement so fast.

RossCollinsRDT

William_Ballsucker

Kiwi_CunderThunt

Again to the surprise of fucking no one. The only surprising part was the fact it lasted more than 10 minutes.

IllSurprise3049

And this is a lesson to lads out there to not exchange a nuclear arsenal for a bread crumbles. No matter what USA promises you.

BetaStateGames

ruzzia won't stop.  I get frustrated thinking that any peace plan where Ukraine has to surrender land is anything other than contentious.  Give ruzzia land now and they will return later to take more.  Bet on it.

Significant-Mud2572

Wait did trump brokered that one too? Another world record wow

Mutchmore

That wasn't a peace talk. That was a speech about no surrender

Eternity13_12

anuiswatching

Scary_Routine_971

Ukraine: “Please leave”
Russia: “No, we want war with you and will fight for many more years if we have to…”
Ukraine: Well Fuck you I guess….

Meeting has concluded….

itsvoogle

honestly, if putin went for north korea, no one would care. I don't even think xi would bat an eye. he chose the wrong country to fuck with

kqlx

EnjoyTheIcing

Putin asked for this peace talks and as soon as Ukraine agreed, Putin all of a sudden didn't want the peace talks anymore. He seems to be oblivious as to how incredibly lame this makes him look.

Roselily808

Russia as the aggressor shouldn't get to dictate terms at all.

t33-retro

We have staff meetings where the "for the good of the order" lasts longer than these peace talks, we get just as much done unfortunately.

athos5

I thought trump already ended this war?!

/s

katsusan

Brannigan: "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won."

Nihilistic_Navigator

no_warning-shots117

The Russian delegation looked a little too much like what I thought they would.

EsteGueyEsChingon

SirHolyCow

EntertainerSoggy9837

AppropriateWay857

I feel for the Russian population in a sense that Putin really just sees them as meat bags to be thrown into battle. Like, I just don’t truly get it …

brillopadBruva

So they're fighting for nothing but made up bollocks in an effort to seize land ultimately and illegally and everyone is just sat back tucking their balls between their legs like fucking cowards...got it.

peanutbutteroverload

Tough-Birthday9367

ISTANBUL, May 16 (Reuters) - Ukraine rallied its Western allies on Friday after Kyiv and Moscow failed to agree to a ceasefire at their first direct talks in three years, with Russia presenting conditions that a Ukrainian source said went beyond its previous demands.
Under pressure from U.S. President Donald Trump to end the conflict, delegates from the warring countries met for the first time since March, 2022, the month after Russia invaded its neighbour.


The talks in an Istanbul palace lasted well under two hours, and there was no immediate announcement on whether or when the sides might meet again.
Russia expressed satisfaction with the talks and both countries said they had agreed to exchange 1,000 prisoners of war from each side.


But Kyiv, which wants the West to impose tighter sanctions unless Moscow accepts a proposal from Trump for a 30-day ceasefire, immediately began rallying its allies for tougher action.
As soon as the talks ended, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy held a phone call with Trump and the leaders of France, Germany and Poland, Zelenskiy's spokesperson said.
Russia's demands were "detached from reality and go far beyond anything that was previously discussed," a source in the Ukrainian delegation told Reuters.

The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Moscow had issued ultimatums for Ukraine to withdraw from parts of its own territory in order to obtain a ceasefire "and other non-starters and non-constructive conditions".British Prime Minister Keir Starmer said the Russian position was unacceptable and that European leaders, Ukraine and the U.S. were "closely aligning" their responses.

Zelenskiy said robust sanctions should follow if Russia rejected a ceasefire.
Expectations for a major breakthrough, already low, were dented further on Thursday when Trump, winding up a Middle East tour, said there would be no movement without a meeting between himself and Russia's President Vladimir Putin.

Sanguinor-Exemplar

Russia did not come to the table because they want to be the ones to dictate the conditions, clearly inadmissible by the Ukrainian counterpart who does not want to cede the territories.


They started this summit knowing clearly that Putin would never show up, to turn public opinion, especially American, with "Putin does not want peace" and thus proceed with new European sanctions and the continuation of the (limited) shipment of American weapons. 


The war will continue in a similar fashion, with Ukraine on the defensive and Russia on the attack, until one of the two collapses, either by the army or the economy 

Puzzleheaded-Fan-452

It seems to me that Zelensky and Europe are intentionally speaking to Russia in terms of ultimatums, demanding an immediate ceasefire 'or else..' because they know Russia will always refuse ultimatums.
All in order to manipulate Trump to adapt his stance regarding Russia and see Russia instead of Zelensky as 'obstacle to peace'. 

puppetmstr

If the Ukrainians are still holding out for Crimea at this point- Somewhere in here it becomes a debate about whether the Ukrainians are actually trying to maintain what sovereignty the realistically can, or if they’re intentionally making it an existential conflict in order to put pressure on the West

ttown2011

These talks was always a joke and never serious. 

What you got was trump bailing Putin out and Europeans sidelined.

JustAhobbyish

The only good news from the “peace” talks. At least some people will get to see their family again.

BigDaddy0790

It would be better for Ukraine to do the exchange in metric tons instead considering how emaciated their people are when Russia releases them.

YoungestDonkey

They also discussed having the second meeting.   Hopefully something good happens there.

SilentBumblebee3225

Ukraine should be receiving 2000 to the russian 1000, since the Ukrainian soldiers will be emaciated and half dead from russian torture, and the russians will have been fed and cared for.

TheActualDonKnotts

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AutoModerator

" those who have been tired of war since 2014 perhaps a bit numb from Ukranian winning propaganda as well as Russian propaganda."  
Well there you have it. 2014 we instead believed in propaganda of looking away and thinking a belligerent dictator would be satisfied with what they grabbed until then.  
How did that work out?

Here's the bottom line - you don't need to be theoretical about it.

Ukraine already tried that. The world has already tried that. When Russia invaded Ukraine, in 2014 aand we looked away.

The 2022 invasion is a result of not nipping that shit in the bud. Shitbuds grow into shitflowers which blossom into shitfruit and before you know it you're wading ankle deep in Iran and fucking North Korea providing military assistance to Russian invasion on European country while they occupy Moldova.

  
\---

"Example of someone going into your home, murdering and raping everyone and everything and then signing a paper with them that they can stay in half of the house but not repeat such things?"  

Exept you did exactly that, and 6 years later they raped your family anyway and only wild luck and ferocious fighting has stopped them from taking over the whole house, and now your neighbour suggests you should give up the additional rooms they've invaded, because *surely this time* their word will mean something more than stalling.  

Ukraine has managed to turn the tide thanks to  valiant effort on Ukrainian side, but also and perhaps to an even bigger extent thankt to extreme amounts of luck and incompetence, corruption, laziness and wishful thinking on the side of Russia. They managed to keep them contained and even beat back, because of embargos on sensitive technology, pressuring third states etc. If Russia is allowed a prolonged break from the way, amass chips, optics and open alternative trade routes - beating another invasion would be order of magnitude more difficult.   

It's never going to be easier. And as we see, Russia will never see their neighbours as actual independent states. Either they can get away with invading us, or they can't.   

If we let them get away with current land grab, we teach them that for all the talk, they WILL get away with it.  

I'd rather show that we can learn from our mistakes, and that there are literally any risks to a failed invasion. If a cease-fire is ceased, we teach them that an invasion is always worth it.

ObliviousAstroturfer

You could try to explain it from the Russian perspective.

As long as they are advancing the Russians won't negotiate, because they believe they can gain more by fighting than by talking.

If Russia believes there is a risk that they could lose the occupied territory, then negotiations are a way out for them. The west needs to strengthen Ukraine to realise that situation.

balamb_fish

Honestly, I’m not sure if any of us in the west should be making this decision for Ukraine. 

Their citizens should be deciding whether to continue fighting or negotiate, since they’re the ones dying.

Just_to_understand

"... Diplomacy - I could give you several examples - only works after the ground has been prepared, so to speak.  
If an opposing partner has the goal of waging war, then diplomacy is of no use. ..."  
  
Former US ambassador (to Germany) John Kornblum said this when the demand to negotiate  
with Vladimir Putin instead of continuing to supply Ukraine with weapons became ever louder in Germany.  
From an obituary by German radio station Deutschlandfunk.  
John Kornblum died on December 23, 2023 in Nashville, Tennessee.  
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/transatlantiker-wie-er-im-buche-steht-ex-botschafter-john-kornblum-gestorben-dlf-16e76d86-100.html

Listelmacher

Person A: "violence solves nothing."
Person B: "true, except in violent situations."

Due_Professional_894

You don’t. This group of people will never understand it, will call you a warmonger, a far rightist or something, until an artillery shell drop right besides them.

disguyiscrazyasfuk

The [first segment of this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wjU-ve4Pn4k&amp;pp=ygUXU0sgbWVkaWEgZHVtYiBhcmd1bWVudHM%3D) lays it out pretty well. It's dated, but still good.


Remind them the Russians tried numerous assassination attempts on Zelenskyy, and poisoned current Def. Minister Rustem Umierov and Russian Oligarch Roman Abramovich during the "peace" talks in March 2022. Does that sound like someone you can negotiate with?

Grilled_Pear

Worth pointing out that Russia has moved to war economy and mobilized an army to take Ukraine and if there is a pause in fighting they will not stop producing weapons and ammo and building up their army but simply keep going and then attack later after building strength.

The only way it could work is if joining NATO during ceasefire so that if they did attack there would be significant defence but I'm not sure how plausible that is.

ethical_arsonist

Easy; when the Soviet Union came apart in 1991, Ukraine was in possession of many Soviet nuclear weapons. England and the US brokered a peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia, in which Ukraine gave its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for Russia’s solemn oath it would forever respect Ukraine’s 1991 borders.

But in 2014 Russia invaded anyway and in the intervening years has committed a long list of war crimes against both the Ukrainian civilian population and Ukrainian POWs.

*Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.*

AlexFromOgish

The Polish guy said it. Give them some of *your* land.

They have committed untold war crimes, executions of prisoners including a fking beheading. Targeting a child's cancer hospital, mass deportations, kidnapping of children, systemic torture of pows. That's the tip of the iceberg. It is a war for the survival of Ukraine against a dictator. It's as simple that. How did peace talks with hitler go?

If somebody is trying to murder you, you do not stop fighting until you are dead, or they leave you alone.

Inside_Ad_7162

Talks aren't so bad.  Chamberlain had talks with Hitler and Ukraine had talks that produced the Budapest memorandum...


I forgot where I was going with this.

Walking72

Any contract signed by Russia is not worth the piece of paper its written on.

See 1990 contract to respect Ukrainian independence.

See the statements where: "Russia has nothing to do with the armed revolt in Donezk"

See the statements where: "Russia will not invade Ukraine".

When they open their dirty mouths they lie. 

They only understand brute force. The rest is propaganda.

The decision is Ukraine's and Ukraine's alone.

If Ukraine stops fighting, the war doesn't end.  It just accelerates into its next phase.

Acceleration of war isn't peace.

Putin and the Russian oligarchy have created a situation in which peace is not an available option right now.  Ukraine will experience war and destruction whether it fights or not.  If they fight, they at least have a chance of eventually ending that experience.

It is not particularly new or unique for Russia to have done this.  History is full of examples.  It is sometimes possible for powerful nations to create situations like that, as Russia has done in this case.

And unlike Ukraine, Russia could stop fighting and the war would end immediately.  It is an asymmetric situation, the two sides in the conflict do not have the same options available to them.

If you want an analogy, it's like if your abusive ex tried to kidnap your five children, in order to lock them up in the basement and abuse them.  And you have fought to free them but your ex still has one of them in the basement, and keeps driving around town terrorizing you and the other four children.  Trying to capture them and drag them off.

Your ex is actually quite open about their view that your children are illegitimate and deserve to be abused.  They say that no agreement will bind them and they will not stop until all of your children are in their basement. Your ex is actually quite psychotic about it.  It's some kind of Josef Fritzl situation except your ex isn't trying to hide it at all.

On this basis you have been fighting for greater protection for your four remaining children and most of all to get that poor fifth child back.  And despite your ex being rich and powerful and influential the legal system is largely on your side.

And yet, into all of that, some of your neighbors keep saying, "Well you know if only you were more willing to renegotiate your full custody of the children, and just let your ex have some of them, then this nightmare of abuse would end."

And you're like, "Are you out of your fucking mind?  That's when the abuse gets worse."

amitym

Unconditional surrender can backfire just as easily as allowing your enemy to keep some dignity. There’s always an option and every option has negatives and positives. Everything else is just opinion.

MajorHymen

There has to be a reason
1  You have to explain that the way Russians conduct the war currently there can be no negotiations. For example beside frontline action they have bombed civilian infrastructure and done so during grain negotiations and all other negotiations and security meetings.
2 Russians or Europeans provide no security guarantes. I mention Russians because they have to contribute.
3 Russians have voiced 0 concessions, meaning Its pointless to surrender to them. They don't even think Ukraine is real. Their attitude is umchanged.
4 they can never even start while kursk is occupied.
5 ALL NEGOTIATIONS SPAM IS FROM THE WEST name one thing from the russians

Comrade281

Make Russia Small Again. Then we can sue for peace.

Sure_Nefariousness56

Russia needs a beat down but no one is giving Ukraine enough equipment and permissions to do so, so I think war will not end,  Russia has almost endless resources for the next few years.

Tallguyyyyy

Easy, when Russia invaded Georgia in 2012 the world just watched. After that, Putin felt he can get away with anything. Two years later, he invaded Ukraine and the world just watched...

InTerZz

I've explained this to people before, I think successfully in the past. 


Peace is just a chance to re-arm unless future aggression is detered. Russia is clearly interested in conquest and has every reason to engage when it feels is opportune. Why would they not? The threat of weapons and sanctions clearly is insufficient especially if we are trying to sue for peace. We even tried this in 2014 and it clearly failed. They already promised to respect Ukraine's sovereignty in the Budapest Memorandum. 


Russia is as weak as it will ever be. Unfortunately there are really only 4 options. 
1. The first is for the War to no longer be worth it to Russia -their economy has a lot of cracks and the casualties are not sustainable. It might be a collapse or returning land and allowing Ukraine to enter into defensive alliances alongside the restoration of Russian Bank accounts. 
2. Direct enforcement of peace by the West requiring us to station troops on Ukraine.
3. Ukraine acquires nuclear weapons.
4. Russian conquers up to Odesa in the long run to achieve their War aims. Civilians are massacred and then forced to live under authoritarian rule while supporting Russia's next War. 

Dihedralman

You point them to the Budapest Memorandum where Russia (and the USA, UK) agreed to provide security assurance for Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons. Then you show how Ukraine upheld their side of the deal, and Russia threw the agreement in the bin and invaded. Thus, talks with Russia mean nothing, and Russia needs to be unable to continue their invasion. EG force is required.

antus666

Chris256L

reflyer

It's impossible to explain something to dumb people, don't even try. Concentrate your efforts on the smart ones.

Rudokhvist

“Peaceful negotiations means that both parties reach a mutually agreeable conclusion. 

Unfortunately, Russia will not agree to pulling back its troops to the internationally recognised borders because then it will have to admit it lost the war. Meanwhile Ukraine cannot agree to ceding territory because then Russia will just build up its forces again  and keep taking bites until Ukraine stops existing. 

Ukraine is fighting for its existence, Russia is fighting because it cannot accept defeat. How would you reach a mutually agreeable solution for this?”

Is how i would answer that question

Make-TFT-Fun-Again

There is no way to explain this.  People who think peace talks will end this war simply don't understand conflict.

MikeinON22

Russia is already beaten. They cannot achieve their goals at the current support levels. What worries me is that they may do the unthinkable out of frustration, deciding to nuke Kyiv rather than withdraw or declare defeat. In Afghanistan, the investment was not as much as it has been these last two years. All prestige and reputation and international standing is gone, the military reputation is gone, the Soviet stockpile is gone, only the nuclear option remains. For all their nuclear saber rattling and their bluffing constantly being called out, it would both shock and also be absolutely in character to make good on their threats. 

Like the bully who is beaten up in a fair fight against a smaller person but comes back with a knife and stabs him in the gut. The gathered crowd also pull their knives and it’s a whole new world order.

Dothemath2

There was a treaty in 1997 between Russia &amp; Ukraine (coined the friendship treaty - also called the big treaty) - [FRIENDSHIP TREATY LINK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E2%80%93Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty).  It gave sovereign power to Ukraine &amp; it's territory in exchange for its Nuclear weapons.  

In 2014 with no provocation Russian troops (unmarked) landed in Crimea &amp; helped separatists seize control (violently).  This violated the treaty, which later became null when it was not renewed in 2019.

Do you wish to sign a new treaty with Russia now?  If so, does that mean we give Ukraine its nuclear weapons back?

SoxInDrawer

Ask them when was the last time bad guys stopped doing their thing without being held accountable. Example: shoplifter, you just let them, why would they ever stop? Same with absolutely everything else.

zizp

There is no simple and rational way to do so. There are simple ways and there are rational ways, but there are not both simple and rational ways. The simple way involves the propaganda war. Short little sound bites that convey the message and are quite frankly the most effective way to sway public opinion. The rational way is to compare Russian appeasers to Neville Chamberlain or to call them out for the Russian trolls that they usually are. Making these arguments takes paragraphs upon paragraphs that 99% of the people won't read once they see how long it is, but if you are talking to the 1% that would both read it and could be swayed by a rational argument then it would be worth it to write them. Perhaps as a blog post that you could just link to.

Bleatmop

I only have experience talking about this with moderate western-grade putinists, so take this with a grain of salt.

Talks only work when both sides act in good faith.  russia's actions prove it does not act in good faith.

There was an agreement not to coerce Ukraine economically or militarily, it was part of the Budapest Memorandum.  russia invaded in 2014 and again in 2022.  russia did not keep it's word.

One response to this is to claim there was an agreement for Ukraine not to join NATO and that Ukraine broke this agreement.  This claim is false, there was never any such agreement, only attempts to convince people there was.  No one can ever seem to find a source, or the name of the agreement.  Asking people who believe in this agreement why no one - not even putin - can name it, I've found that shuts them up really quick.

aholetookmyusername

Where do you see that idea? if it's online from people who you don't know personally then it's russian bots.

Or could be a victim of russian propaganda, just tell that you can't negotiate with criminal who is trying to rob you about how much criminal can take from you, criminals must be stopped, captured and punished. Russian war is illegal and they committing terrorism. putin is wanted for children kidnapping 

But don't argue online with anonymous accounts.

if it's a person you know then they are under the influence of russian propaganda and don't see what russia really is - a terrorist state, and always has been. show them the list of wars that russians started (including WW2 attack on Poland and Finland, nothing have change in russians behavior ) and tell them to change their news sources

medgel

The ISW has done a lot of good interviews and articles on this lately.

Here's [one](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/long-term-risks-premature-ceasefire-ukraine)

an extract from the above:

*Within a few years of the cessation of hostilities, therefore, the following conditions are extremely likely to hold:*

1. *Ukrainian military power will be lower than it is now*
2. *Russian military power will be greater than it is now and rising*
3. *Western military support for Ukraine will be lower*
4. *Western economic support for Ukraine will be insufficient and dropping*
5. *General Western enthusiasm for supporting Ukraine will be lower*
6. *Internal Ukrainian cohesion will be lower*
7. *Russia’s aims toward Ukraine and the US will remain unchanged*

  
*Success for Ukraine and the West lies in ensuring that Ukraine has secured territorial gains, military capabilities, and economic and reconstruction support while it is at or near its peak that are all great enough to deter a recovering Russia from restarting the war even as Ukraine’s power and Western support drop.*

Lazy_Plan_585

If you need to explain it, you won't succed and it's a waste of time.
But if you like wasting you time, explain how armed robbery newer ends with a "yeah, that fine, just keep what you stole".

Baal-84

The problem with your approach is that, unlike in Munich, Russia has the nukes. So really the only option is to negotiate and gradually transform it into something tolerable, the way America transformed Germany (west) after WWII.

I just don't see making Russia submit by force as a viable option. I mean look at a much smaller country called North Korea, how difficult it is to bring it to its knees, despite it being so much weaker than Russia. And also keep mind that Russia has FAPP an infinite capacity for self-sacrifice, for some idiotic cultural reasons, as well as (to quote Monty Python), an almost fanatical devotion to the Tsar (Putin).

I know, I absolutely hate this situation too but we won't achieve anything by daydreaming. Last but not least, an agreement of some kind with the West would significantly weaken the antiwestern forces inside the Kremlin which Putin has to "respect" (he is not omnipotent, just like Kim Jong-un isn't, despite appearances).

JanPB

Recent diplomatic developments see Russia and Ukraine in direct peace talks for the first time in over three years, held in Turkey. The negotiations were driven by attempts to negotiate a ceasefire and resulted in an agreement for a significant prisoner exchange of 1,000 prisoners each. Despite these discussions, achieving a ceasefire remains challenging due to Moscow's new demands and ongoing military activities.

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